Comments on: When will Arab men stop reducing us to sexual objects? http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects Personal Website Fri, 20 Aug 2010 01:39:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Basma http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-612 Basma Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:43:18 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-612 Excellent points Dr. Amal. I agree with you that this is a symptom of a society in transition- and a very rapid transition too whose outcome is uncertain though with positive indicators. However, I can't help but think of other Arab countries, who had a history of being more liberal than the Gulf, but today their female citizens are witnessing deteriorations in their status due to such outlooks and rationale. What then was happening for almost a century of reforms? Nothing was digested? I'm not down playing socioeconomic reasons here, and fully aware of the political environment that creates welcoming environment for religious extremists' views who capitalizes on people's economic and political grievances to solicit support for their radical views- but does all of that mean that Woman will remain forever confined to the role of the hostage upon whom all national, political, ideological, religious and moral fights are carried? I'm expanding the thought beyond the Gulf just to help me think of these questions, though I'm not sure I have answers yet. I appreciate the discourses you are allowing through this blog by the way. I should have mentioned that earlier, but I got too excited :) Excellent points Dr. Amal. I agree with you that this is a symptom of a society in transition- and a very rapid transition too whose outcome is uncertain though with positive indicators. However, I can’t help but think of other Arab countries, who had a history of being more liberal than the Gulf, but today their female citizens are witnessing deteriorations in their status due to such outlooks and rationale. What then was happening for almost a century of reforms? Nothing was digested? I’m not down playing socioeconomic reasons here, and fully aware of the political environment that creates welcoming environment for religious extremists’ views who capitalizes on people’s economic and political grievances to solicit support for their radical views- but does all of that mean that Woman will remain forever confined to the role of the hostage upon whom all national, political, ideological, religious and moral fights are carried? I’m expanding the thought beyond the Gulf just to help me think of these questions, though I’m not sure I have answers yet. I appreciate the discourses you are allowing through this blog by the way. I should have mentioned that earlier, but I got too excited :)

]]> By: Amal Almalki http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-607 Amal Almalki Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:19:54 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-607 Lovely Basma! The problem is there is a long tradition of commodification of women; aren’t they objects of seduction and need to be fully covered, muted, with downcast eyes so men wouldn’t sin!!! Weren’t women assigned to the ‘private space’ for so long-- away from the public space? And now that women share the public space with men, men are so confused on how to treat women!! Do they deal with women who dared to venture in public through a traditional mentality that perceive these women as “loose”? Or would they adopt a different mentality that would make them “look” more civilized? Still, both cases lack genuine respect! Lovely Basma!
The problem is there is a long tradition of commodification of women; aren’t they objects of seduction and need to be fully covered, muted, with downcast eyes so men wouldn’t sin!!! Weren’t women assigned to the ‘private space’ for so long– away from the public space? And now that women share the public space with men, men are so confused on how to treat women!! Do they deal with women who dared to venture in public through a traditional mentality that perceive these women as “loose”? Or would they adopt a different mentality that would make them “look” more civilized? Still, both cases lack genuine respect!

]]> By: Basma http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-605 Basma Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:59:23 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-605 This is quite interesting, and the responses even more interesting being quite passionate and defensive rather than try to really give and take, to listen, to think, to constructively engage. Why did this turn into a comparison with the west, with the same, old, pointless rhetoric about how the west was the first to objectify and exploit women? Did the author here mention, imply or refer to the west? She spoke about the ARAB MAN. In compariosn to nothing other than a standard of justice and morality that one instinctively knows. For those of you how are under the impression that Islam have saved women and quickly attack with a reference to sharia, let's really talk about sharia which I've studied beyond the quick quotations we hide behind in public. This is not a discussion about Islam and the ideal that was suppose to be applied, putting aside various legal interpretations of the textual sources. Instead, this is about human behavior, culture and choices. The history of this region is filled with agonizing encounters with women well before the west starts commodifying her. Did you forget slavery? This is not an attack on Islam, this is not a comparison between east and west, this is not a generalization about every single Arab man who exists on planet earth (we all know of those who don't conform to this descriptions), but this is a characteristic of social problem that must be addressed. A feature of a failed system, and in my view, among the reasons why Muslim societies are struggling to develop and take their rightful seats among nations; the oppressive, patriarichal construct that confines half of its population or trivialize them has all this human potenial wasted- even if it is glossed over with defensive responsive such as they work and study as they want and can hold any office they can think of. Even the president if there were a genuine and representative political atmosphere in the region? This same failed social model is echoed in the wicked political atmosphere that denies the human basic rights of involvement and of taking ownership of his/her societies problems. Women in my view in the Arab world are both a victim and a perpetuator of this ongoing state, because she succumbs to the invisible (and visible) hand that tries sometimes to hold her back- and of course, there are the many exceptions to that too. This is quite interesting, and the responses even more interesting being quite passionate and defensive rather than try to really give and take, to listen, to think, to constructively engage. Why did this turn into a comparison with the west, with the same, old, pointless rhetoric about how the west was the first to objectify and exploit women? Did the author here mention, imply or refer to the west? She spoke about the ARAB MAN. In compariosn to nothing other than a standard of justice and morality that one instinctively knows. For those of you how are under the impression that Islam have saved women and quickly attack with a reference to sharia, let’s really talk about sharia which I’ve studied beyond the quick quotations we hide behind in public. This is not a discussion about Islam and the ideal that was suppose to be applied, putting aside various legal interpretations of the textual sources. Instead, this is about human behavior, culture and choices. The history of this region is filled with agonizing encounters with women well before the west starts commodifying her. Did you forget slavery? This is not an attack on Islam, this is not a comparison between east and west, this is not a generalization about every single Arab man who exists on planet earth (we all know of those who don’t conform to this descriptions), but this is a characteristic of social problem that must be addressed. A feature of a failed system, and in my view, among the reasons why Muslim societies are struggling to develop and take their rightful seats among nations; the oppressive, patriarichal construct that confines half of its population or trivialize them has all this human potenial wasted- even if it is glossed over with defensive responsive such as they work and study as they want and can hold any office they can think of. Even the president if there were a genuine and representative political atmosphere in the region? This same failed social model is echoed in the wicked political atmosphere that denies the human basic rights of involvement and of taking ownership of his/her societies problems. Women in my view in the Arab world are both a victim and a perpetuator of this ongoing state, because she succumbs to the invisible (and visible) hand that tries sometimes to hold her back- and of course, there are the many exceptions to that too.

]]> By: Ahmed sewilam http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-486 Ahmed sewilam Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:49:00 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-486 the name of God the Merciful The common sense of the concept of the Islamic religion, provides great opportunity for each of the individual community women and men in understanding their joint and equal in life Larry and I solve the problem of Arab men are not at the Western World But all of the Arab men and the Western world men and women need to return to the religion of Islam to get the correct understanding of masculinity and femininity The man on the strength of women, but women are raising men and have many posts to effectively contribute to the prosperity of the Islamic civilization from the beginning of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him Adults and both were followed by rulers from the people with opinions good and wisdom Can not find the role of women in religion and higher status in the community building, but all ungrateful, but the solution is not in the West, but in our Islamic religion if we stick with him to follow to complete the chosen leader of mankind, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him the name of God the Merciful
The common sense of the concept of the Islamic religion, provides great opportunity for each of the individual community women and men in understanding their joint and equal in life
Larry and I solve the problem of Arab men are not at the Western World
But all of the Arab men and the Western world men and women need to return to the religion of Islam to get the correct understanding of masculinity and femininity
The man on the strength of women, but women are raising men and have many posts to effectively contribute to the prosperity of the Islamic civilization from the beginning of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him Adults and both were followed by rulers from the people with opinions good and wisdom
Can not find the role of women in religion and higher status in the community building, but all ungrateful, but the solution is not in the West, but in our Islamic religion if we stick with him to follow to complete the chosen leader of mankind, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him

]]> By: Amal Almalki http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-331 Amal Almalki Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:07:01 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-331 Interesting! I would say that any woman wouldn't want to be "locked up" or "played" by any man. Women shouldn't play the role of the "victim" either way! Interesting! I would say that any woman wouldn’t want to be “locked up” or “played” by any man. Women shouldn’t play the role of the “victim” either way!

]]> By: kb1cqx http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-330 kb1cqx Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:49:13 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-330 Id rather be locked in a home with one man in an Arab country, then be played like a golf course in the west. LMAO :) Id rather be locked in a home with one man in an Arab country, then be played like a golf course in the west. LMAO :)

]]> By: tareq http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-303 tareq Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:33:14 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-303 I don't know where to start, but today i have read alot of posts on different blogs about this very issue "arab men/sexisim". I am an arab male and i have lived all life in the arab world and went to school in the states and i am also well traveled. I also meet alot of international people. I have been involved in this argument too many times but I just wanna list a bunch of things that do exist in our world: 1- sexisim exists in all cultures, but it also has a history in arab tribes before islam, and unfortunalty after islam,which means islam changed things to the better but i think some things are still deeply rooted. 2- Western media of this century objectifies /sexifies women the most, and when western medai is directly targeted to the arab world then that has its effects. What I mean by targeted directly is: arab channels play up to date mainstream american media from commercial hip-hop booty bouncing, to date my mom type reality shows, not to mention the blonde on everything GOOD. so westerners: your media is making the stereotype, and it being intense in the arab world which increases it amongst arabs. 3- most feminist arguments you hear are based on western culture femenism, which usually stereotypes islam. It's hard to meet an arab girl who uses islamic rules to protect herslef from sexisim. insead they forget the wife of the prophet muhammad pbuh was a buisness women, and they wait for a westwern organization led by a girl abused by her father as a child to come tell her what to do. islam and other monoathiest relegions are against sexisim if you look at the basics and not get weak radical sources, so use that instead of relying on people who are un-aware of your culture. 4-arab men do get flirtatious alot of time, I think its a cultural thing, but I think the new generation are not that good at doing that and remaining polite, you can think of the media and the industry influencing that too...I mean when girls wanna get their victoria secret thongs, the boys now are not gonna talk about the eyes anymore!!! So the standards have changed too. 5-As for comparing Arab men to western men. and i am not saying the rest of men , because up unitl now every arab woman who argued this sexisim issue only compared to the west not the rest of the world, which makes it hard to deal with because the opressor is involved!!! But remember while men in western culture don't hit on you constantly on the street, they do appraoch you at the bar with the sweetest way, and act polite and gentle, but in the morning YOU ARE DONE TO THEM. So sex being a possibility makes the encounter different. Arab men on the street comment on your sexy body in a creepy way knowing you are just a beutiful girl passing by and thats it. Western men when make you very comfortable with them and then they get what they want and throw you...so they are just smarter...but that sex game now is vailable by through media her ein the arba world, so lately at the bars in Amman jordan say, the boys started being more gentle rather than abnoxious, and the result is more depressed girls, less comments that mae your day on the street and more guys who just tricked you! 6-my last point is single moms, divorced women rights, family values, media wars on muslim/arab world, sexual frustration resulting form TV content being so different than society........ IF YOU WANNA SOLVE YOUR PEOPLE'S ISSUE IT HAS TO BE AN EFFORT FORM INSIDE...COPARINF TO OTHER CULTURES NEVER WORKS...SPECIALLY THE WEST BECAUSE IT BECAUSE CLECH' IN MY COLLEGE DAYS I HAD ALOT OF WESTERN FEMALE FRIENDS AND REALLY THE STORIES I HEARD MAKE ME THINK MEN ARE EVIL BY NATURE WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT INDS OF SEXISIM IN OUR CULTURES, BUT I THIN THE ARAB MAN ONE SHOWS THE MOST BECAUSE ITS ONLY ON THE SURFACE+ WESTERN MEDIA .... I TRIED MY BEST NOT BEING A CONSPIRACY THEORIST BUT REALLY TO BE PERONOID OVER YOUR SISTER BEING VERSION OR NOT IS BETTER THAN RAPPING HER WHEN SHE IS YOUNG!!!1 SALAM I don’t know where to start, but today i have read alot of posts on different blogs about this very issue “arab men/sexisim”.

I am an arab male and i have lived all life in the arab world and went to school in the states and i am also well traveled. I also meet alot of international people. I have been involved in this argument too many times but I just wanna list a bunch of things that do exist in our world:

1- sexisim exists in all cultures, but it also has a history in arab tribes before islam, and unfortunalty after islam,which means islam changed things to the better but i think some things are still deeply rooted.

2- Western media of this century objectifies /sexifies women the most, and when western medai is directly targeted to the arab world then that has its effects. What I mean by targeted directly is: arab channels play up to date mainstream american media from commercial hip-hop booty bouncing, to date my mom type reality shows, not to mention the blonde on everything GOOD. so westerners: your media is making the stereotype, and it being intense in the arab world which increases it amongst arabs.

3- most feminist arguments you hear are based on western culture femenism, which usually stereotypes islam. It’s hard to meet an arab girl who uses islamic rules to protect herslef from sexisim. insead they forget the wife of the prophet muhammad pbuh was a buisness women, and they wait for a westwern organization led by a girl abused by her father as a child to come tell her what to do. islam and other monoathiest relegions are against sexisim if you look at the basics and not get weak radical sources, so use that instead of relying on people who are un-aware of your culture.

4-arab men do get flirtatious alot of time, I think its a cultural thing, but I think the new generation are not that good at doing that and remaining polite, you can think of the media and the industry influencing that too…I mean when girls wanna get their victoria secret thongs, the boys now are not gonna talk about the eyes anymore!!! So the standards have changed too.

5-As for comparing Arab men to western men. and i am not saying the rest of men , because up unitl now every arab woman who argued this sexisim issue only compared to the west not the rest of the world, which makes it hard to deal with because the opressor is involved!!!
But remember while men in western culture don’t hit on you constantly on the street, they do appraoch you at the bar with the sweetest way, and act polite and gentle, but in the morning YOU ARE DONE TO THEM. So sex being a possibility makes the encounter different.
Arab men on the street comment on your sexy body in a creepy way knowing you are just a beutiful girl passing by and thats it. Western men when make you very comfortable with them and then they get what they want and throw you…so they are just smarter…but that sex game now is vailable by through media her ein the arba world, so lately at the bars in Amman jordan say, the boys started being more gentle rather than abnoxious, and the result is more depressed girls, less comments that mae your day on the street and more guys who just tricked you!

6-my last point is single moms, divorced women rights, family values, media wars on muslim/arab world, sexual frustration resulting form TV content being so different than society……..

IF YOU WANNA SOLVE YOUR PEOPLE’S ISSUE IT HAS TO BE AN EFFORT FORM INSIDE…COPARINF TO OTHER CULTURES NEVER WORKS…SPECIALLY THE WEST BECAUSE IT BECAUSE CLECH’

IN MY COLLEGE DAYS I HAD ALOT OF WESTERN FEMALE FRIENDS AND REALLY THE STORIES I HEARD MAKE ME THINK MEN ARE EVIL BY NATURE WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT INDS OF SEXISIM IN OUR CULTURES, BUT I THIN THE ARAB MAN ONE SHOWS THE MOST BECAUSE ITS ONLY ON THE SURFACE+ WESTERN MEDIA ….

I TRIED MY BEST NOT BEING A CONSPIRACY THEORIST BUT REALLY TO BE PERONOID OVER YOUR SISTER BEING VERSION OR NOT IS BETTER THAN RAPPING HER WHEN SHE IS YOUNG!!!1

SALAM

]]> By: TheMasterMind http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-256 TheMasterMind Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:18:41 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-256 I think that we can make a good ending statement about this argument. Reducing women to sexual objects is wrong; no logical unbiased person would disagree with that. they are humans and all humans consist of body and MIND; thus it is very clear that there is much much more to women. the question that remains is whether this problem exists among Arab men or not. I personally think it does not exist, but when i think about it, the existence of the problem does not matter because we have and we agree on the solution. So, if the problem exists then there exists a solution, if there does not exist a problem then we are all Happy. I think that we can make a good ending statement about this argument. Reducing women to sexual objects is wrong; no logical unbiased person would disagree with that. they are humans and all humans consist of body and MIND; thus it is very clear that there is much much more to women. the question that remains is whether this problem exists among Arab men or not. I personally think it does not exist, but when i think about it, the existence of the problem does not matter because we have and we agree on the solution. So, if the problem exists then there exists a solution, if there does not exist a problem then we are all Happy.

]]> By: Lulwa . A http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-131 Lulwa . A Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:25:46 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-131 Please, go and read about the Islamic Law ,you will find many things amaze you ,you will find how this Law respect the Women alot alot more than any traditional Rulse.. Please, go and read about the Islamic Law ,you will find many things amaze you ,you will find how this Law respect the Women alot alot more than any traditional Rulse..

]]> By: Millie http://amalalmalki.com/archives/when-will-arab-men-stop-reducing-us-to-sexual-objects/comment-page-1#comment-87 Millie Sun, 07 Jun 2009 08:36:48 +0000 http://amalalmalki.com/?p=44#comment-87 As a western woman living in an Arab country I read this with interest. I do not know if Arab men are more demeaning to women. From my own personal experience I think western men are aware that they should not treat women as sexual objects so perhaps this influences their outward behaviour and even their attitude. In addition I think we have to consider role models and society. If Arab men do not know any educated women who are their intellectual equal and have little interaction with women outside their family then their understanding of women will be stunted. It is, I think, mistaken to accuse Arab men, but rather you should accuse the educational and societal systems of failures. As a western woman living in an Arab country I read this with interest. I do not know if Arab men are more demeaning to women. From my own personal experience I think western men are aware that they should not treat women as sexual objects so perhaps this influences their outward behaviour and even their attitude. In addition I think we have to consider role models and society. If Arab men do not know any educated women who are their intellectual equal and have little interaction with women outside their family then their understanding of women will be stunted.
It is, I think, mistaken to accuse Arab men, but rather you should accuse the educational and societal systems of failures.

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